Where exactly did she get the information she is spouting as fact?


Where exactly did she get the information she is spouting as fact?

The disease model also assumes that addicts won’t get better unless they seek expert treatment. In fact, a pile of research shows that most addicts cure themselves. They do so when the price becomes too high – when they might lose a job, a marriage, their kids or the regard of people they respect. Most people who were addicted in their teens and 20s manage to clean up by their 30s. Unlike Mr. Hoffman, most don’t relapse.




About madyson007

I am a mom of 4 who thought she was home free when my oldest son went off to college. My serious blunder? Genetics and being naive or maybe just plain stupid.
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10 Responses to Where exactly did she get the information she is spouting as fact?

  1. madyson007 says:

    I some how accidentally erased the other post???? So confused? Sorry! There were some really important responses and they are gone now….so sad. Please repost if possible! Especially Gal, she could really use are prayers and support right now.

  2. Gal says:

    February 16, 2014 at 8:24 PM

    I wonder if she’s been hurt by an addict/alcoholic?
    February 16, 2014 at 8:26 PM

    Oh, for God’s sake! I am home briefly at this moment before racing back to the ICU, where my daughter is being treated for a heroin and tramadol (probably) overdose. Yesterday, I watched her convulse on her bathroom floor for an eternity and turn blue (and unconscious) while we waited for the paramedics. She had two more major seizures at the ER. She had been clean from heroin and other drugs for about 8 months since working hard through a super tough 4-month rehab program last Spring. I watched my 29-year old daughter start to die, but she managed to survive. Right now, as they lower the phenobarbital dose (to keep the seizures from occurring), she has a Swiss cheese memory. She doesn’t remember that she’s taking a university course in accounting (making A’s). She doesn’t remember her best friend. She doesn’t have much of a personality at all. The doctors say her brain/memory should improve. They have committed her to a local mental/rehab hospital that her work insurance should cover. I feel blessed beyond measure that she is still alive. At the same time, I am frightened by what lies ahead. I should mention that the relapse happened after she (with doctor’s permission) weaned herself off of suboxone. It’s so sickening, because, up until two weeks ago, she was doing well in her job, had a good relationship with a non-drug-using, non-enabling boyfriend, and as I mentioned, working her way toward finishing a degree in math. But the addict-behaviors started long before she used. I should have seen it coming, not that I could have prevented anything.
    Sorry for the long spiel, but the paragraph you posted is laughable, at best. Idiot is a nicer word than I would have used.
    -A much sadder, yet relieved, Gal (We live to fight another day.)

    February 16, 2014 at 9:02 PM

    Oh Gal I am so sorry. I am sending healing vibes to all of you. Please keep us updated!

    February 16, 2014 at 9:03 PM

    I am beginning to wonder if anyone should be weaned off Suboxone if it is actually working.
    February 16, 2014 at 9:32 PM

    Madyson, one of the doctors said she should remain on suboxone from now on-meaning forever, but the addiction doctor says probably 2 years minimum – or monthly naltrexone injections. I no longer care if she takes one of these drugs forever. After more relapses than I can remember and the haunting memory of her choking through those horrible seizures, I just don’t care. Ten years ago, she tested out of most of her freshman college courses. Today we’re worrying about brain damage. Suboxone doesn’t scare me. Thanks for the healing vibes. And thanks for keeping your blog going, so I could purge.
    February 16, 2014 at 9:50 PM

    I don’t know anyone who was on subs who also didn’t abuse other opiates, even if they had the best intentions when they started. If the sub doctor very, very gradually weaned them down when they felt ready, then maybe it could work. Most doctors give the script, and send the addict on their merry way; spending 5 minutes a month with them, charging a bundle and not worrying about patient care or how they are going to eventually wean them off this very powerful opiate agonist. The brain can’t heal if it has artificial opiates. Long term care is essential, as it can take a year or more for the normal opiate production in the brain to return to previous function. Most relapse because of this mechanism. It’s called PAWS.

    February 16, 2014 at 9:57 PM

    Subs were not a long term solution for J. They were a solution for his withdrawals…that’s about it. However, there does seem to be “some” great success stories with Suboxone for some addicts. My son was just not one of those success stories. If it worked I would have hocked my house to keep him on Suboxone…

  3. Gal says:

    Madyson, I printed a copy of all the responses you had before I left for the hospital. Sorry they got bunched together.

  4. Annette says:

    Gal, I am praying for your girl. I feel so much for you and for her.
    My girl is on Subs and it seems to be helping with the cravings. Its been about 6 and a half months. If she wanted to be on Subs for the rest of her life, I would support that. It is a hell of a lot better than watching the alternative.

  5. madyson007 says:

    THANK YOU! Gal….I so appreciate it.

  6. Jeff says:

    It’s hard to tell in this replaced thread format who made the comments about suboxone, dorcon1 perhaps? Whomever it is, the comments are nearly as misguided, off base and flat out unsubstantiated as the Globe article posting that the comments are attributed to! Whomever wrote them may not knowingly know of someone on suboxone successfully treating their addiction but I can assure you they are out there and all over the place. I personally know, encounter and interact with 100s of them! While it is true some misuse suboxone, if taken properly as part of a recovery program it really is nothing short of miraculous. It appears that GAL’s daughter was proof of that. It appears she had a wonderful recovery going on suboxone and then relapsed after stopping it. What in the hell does that show you? Clearly on suboxone she did very well for over a year – off of suboxone she relapsed withing weeks. Do you see a cause and effect here? It’s clear you are very misinformed as even within one paragraph you have all sorts of flat out wrong statements and information:

    1. Suboxone is a “very powerful opiate agonist” WRONG it is a partial agonist that won’t even show up on an opiate drug test!

    2. “Normal opiate production in the brain” WRONG there is no such thing. Perhaps endorphins is the term you are reaching for? The brain does not produce opiates.

    3. “Most doctors spend 5 minutes and just give a script” WRONG YET AGAIN certainly a few, perhaps even some might do this- certainly not most.

    4. Do you even know what PAWS is or stands for? Post acute withdrawal is most certainly real and ill even give you that to return to 100% could take up to a year but most patients return to about 90% or have 90% of PAWS behind them after about three months. If a proper, lengthy taper from suboxone is completed PAWS can be managed.

    To be sure coming off of suboxone can be difficult and dangerous as relapse is very real. For that reason some, perhaps many need to be on it for life. Just as a diabetic takes insulin for life or a high cholesterol or high blood pressure patient needs medication for life. Suboxone can be misused just as sleeping pills, anxiety meds or pain pills can be misused. However if taken correctly and as part of a recovery program it can be a life savor. Unfortunately some addicts are not ready for recovery. Sadly J seemed to be in that category. It appears the OP also has experience with the same thing. I don’t at all discount that. However just because your loved one did not do well on suboxone does not mean that no one does. In that you could not be more wrong. And yes, I’ve been clean on suboxone for nearly 5 years without a single relapse or even a close call. I am not unique. I can show you many, many, many others just like me that take it once a day along and live a completely normal and productive life – as a CEO of a large state-wide organization. Yes addiction touches all walks of life.

    GAL my prayers go to you and you daughter. Tramadol in high doses is notorious for causing seizures. The positive thing is it rarely causes brain damage. Hopefully other Drugs were not involved but Tramadol on its own should not have. If your daughter gets back on suboxone, there are doctors out there who will allow her to be on it very long term. You may need to seek one out. Again my best wishes to you.

    Sorry for the long post on your blog Mady. I hope it helps educate your many readers and perhaps helps a few as well.

  7. MammaP says:

    Gal I am so sorry to hear about daughter..Positive thoughts being sent your way!!
    Mady..I don’t think I have read such a ridiculous article in my life!!
    Jeff: Thank-you for your post..my son is currently going thro similar issues with methadone..I don’t care if he has to remain on it for the rest of life..If it gives him a new life..I struggled with it at first..But after a failed attempt at the subs..Methadone seems to working..except for getting the right dose!!

  8. dorcon1 says:

    Jeff – in your reply to my comment, I would like to say I am speaking from experience, just as you are. Both are truths, since we are only speaking from what we have gone through. Endorphins ARE endogenous opioid peptides and bind to the opiate receptors. When you take drugs, your brain stops producing them naturally and it takes most people a full year for their brain to recover. If it took 3 months, then the relapse rate would be much lower.

    Yes, suboxone is a partial opiate agonist, forgot the word partial. But boy does it cling like hell. It’s so much more powerful than opiate drugs, and the sub doctors usually way over prescribe. My son was give 24 mgs. for an 80 mg. oxy addiction! Overkill, if you do the conversion (which they have conversion calculators online). And as far as it not showing up on a drug test, it does show up under the category “sub”.

    The doctor experience for our son maybe was an anomaly, but he only took cash (red flag), not insurance. Maybe that is why?

    All I know, is that subs did not work for my son, or anyone he knows. They were a temporary fix for a problem that needed long term treatment. But subs worked for YOU, and that is all that matters. I am so happy for you, that you had the strength to follow the program, and use them to get out of a destructive lifestyle. More power to you!!

    • Jeff says:

      I can’t really disagree with most of what you said this time. Had you have written it this way in the origional post I would not have even said anything – especially your last paragraph. I can certainly see how it didn’t go well for your son. Unfortunatly that is not at all the picture you tried to paint in your post using words and phrases like no anyone and most doctors. That just is not true. I believe it didn’t work for your son. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for tens of thousands of others and I really could give you names and emails of at least 50 that I know personally perhaps as many as 100. You’re splitting hairs with the rest but I’m not going to argue semantics. Certainly 24 mg is a waste. If won’t even do anything above 16 mg which is now the suggested top daily dose – often the most insurance will cover daily. Many do just as well on 8, 6, even 4 mg with far less side effects. The down side is it is easier for heroin to break through 4 mg or just wait a day or two to use. It will never crack 24 mg and a week would have to pass to get much effect from their DOC.

      Any way you slice it suboxone is saving far more people and lives than your initial post seemed to suggest and I could just not let someone’s loved one pass on sub because they read on a blog that it never works. Sorry that was the case for you son.

  9. dorcon1 says:

    Jeff, one last observation I would like to suggest may be the reason that subs work for so many – perhaps it is a matter of age, and/or how badly you want to stop the opiates. My son (age 19) in his addiction was so impulsive , and could not see past today into the future. Your brain was already mature, so had a head start in that direction? You could see the light at the end of the tunnel. If my son didn’t feel good (even after explaining PAWS to him), he would say “I’ll never feel good, so I may as well take drugs.” Things are different for him now at 5 months sober. He says he has never felt better in his life! He is with a bunch of young guys who are going through the same thing and have each other for support and companionship. So thankful.

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